While checking if Pliny was at his own villa or a friend’s I found something that I had forgotten.
Pliny left Misenum trying to save a friend of his who was trapped in her villa at the foot of Vesuvius. The only escape was by sea. Pliny never made it and of course she died.
Yesterday, while wasting my working day looking at Youtube Herculaneum & Pompeii documentaries, I found this documentary about a cellar where 57 skeletons were found. The cellar was in a granary but just at the side of the granary was a Roman mansion. The largest and more opulent ever seen to this date, the documentary claimed.
Anyway, the bodies were split in two groups in the cellar. One group was of wealthy people, since they found money and gold jewerly with them, and the other group were probably laborers and slaves since they had nothing.
But what I found astonishing was that they found the body of a 20 something woman with a purse that had 100,000 sestercii. The archeologist said that it represented 10 years pay for a legionaire. The best approximation to US dollars would be about 325,000 to 400,000 since most of the coins were solidus (gold coins). I wonder if these people found Pliny’s friend villa.
Apparently, Pliny Jr. stayed home. No doubt his account of the disaster has substantially informed Klio’s rendering.
Equally doubtless, Felix will land elsewhere, so Klio can milk even more pathos out of an already horrifying story. She’s mean that way.
From what I have read, Pliny Jr went with his uncle in the rescue mission but he remained at their first unscheduled stop, a friend’s villa, when the ash and pumice fall made any kind of sea travel extremely dangerous. Pliny Sr decided to keep trying to reach his friend’s villa but died while traveling there. The rescuers aborted the mission and returned to where Pliny Jr. was.
Pliny the Younger decided to stay behind, basically to do his homework (he was still only a teenager), but then helped his household escape the dangers from tremors, through the heavy ash fall and complete darkness over Misenum and the environs.
The two Plinii get confusing, so when in doubt I double-check the original letters Jr wrote 🙂
Let’s say that the fish-pickle ship would have tried to go north toward Misenum while the going was good, and that the ship Felix and Damon ended up on was driven south, past Stabiae….
I’m not mean, I’m just forced by meteorological circumstances. That’s totally why.
Well, the eruption would undoubtedly produce some weird weather effects, with outflows, backdrafts and general volcanic flatulence. Those who left fairly early might get a fair land-breeze, wafting them away from the Nasty Mountain. Those who waited might find backdraft/onshore breezes prevented their getting far offshore without a great deal of rowing. And of course the water would get very rough… followed by poisonous clouds making it fairly far off shore… Altogether a worse boating experience than the recent Alabama Regatta!
Most if not all cargo ships of the time used sails. They could row but probably did not have more than 2 or 3 pairs of oars to do so. These weren’t galleys. Galleys were warships since they needed to maneuver independently of wind conditions.
Well, Pliny is Roman navy, so presumably he would have some oar-equipped military ships available, though generally the fast rowing ships were poor sea-boats. Certainly merchant ships would have some sweeps available for maneuvering in harbor, but indeed they would have no real power against headwinds or rough weather. I can imagine a panel showing mariners on a merchant ship heaving manfully on the maneuvering sweeps in a vain effort to get under weigh… then splat a big ole rock goes through the maindeck. Smaller boats in harbor might be able to row well enough to get away, but other weather effects might well doom them as well. It’s a pretty nasty situation, stuck on a lee shore with a vocano breathing down your neck.
I can imagine a panel showing mariners on a merchant ship heaving manfully on the maneuvering sweeps in a vain effort to get under weigh… then splat a big ole rock goes through the maindeck.
We’ll use that scene in the movie adaptation!
Which will somehow manage to star Tom Hiddleston and Tilda Swinton.
Pliny Sr. took the navy’s galleys and tried to reach wherever her friend’s villa was. Probably in Oplontis that was also buried in ash from the pyroclastic cloud. He could not reach the area due to strong HOT winds. Ash, pumice rock and heavy rocks falling like hail. He went to stabiae where they still suffered from the eruption but were safe from the pyroclastic cloud. There he died on the beach under a tent made with a ship’s sail. His nephew believed that he was killed by toxic gases that came from the volcano. Suetonius said that he ordered a slave to kill him so he wouldn’t die burned to death, But Pliny Jr. said that his body was unharmed. Current theories are either asthma attack caused by the ash (volcanic ash is really harmful to your lungs. Ash particles have razor like edges that will cut your pulmonary tissue to ribbons) or heart attack.
Kobayashi Maru! I knew you’d have the reference at your fingertips! As far as stacking the deck… given all the hard work you’ve done on this project, I figure you deserve a bit of slack now and again!
There is a real life Kobayashi Maru test for officers of the UK Royal Navy. They put you in a sub and then they send 4 ships to try to sink you by ramming. You have to escape.
Based on hard-won 19th century experience, the best way to avoid getting sunk by ramming, is to turn directly toward the attacker. You’re assured a hit, but a glancing one. Not sure how that would work out with 4 opponents… cumulative damage could be extensive after a few near ‘misses’
Unlike the fictional one, this is a test to see if the officer can work under pressure. The ships are on a ramming course but of course they are not going to ram you. At the same time, you have to evade and escape.
Next one is going to be a little late–probably appearing in the wee hours. I’m doing my usual Friday drawing in the artist space at Carmine Street Comics, but have a wee bit of eyestrain to contend with 😛
I just have a question: Who is feeding that baby?
It’s shortly to become a problem.
Luckily, there are several hundred women in the vicinity, so there’s a decent chance that help is available.
Is this at Pliny’s seaside estate?
While checking if Pliny was at his own villa or a friend’s I found something that I had forgotten.
Pliny left Misenum trying to save a friend of his who was trapped in her villa at the foot of Vesuvius. The only escape was by sea. Pliny never made it and of course she died.
Yesterday, while wasting my working day looking at Youtube Herculaneum & Pompeii documentaries, I found this documentary about a cellar where 57 skeletons were found. The cellar was in a granary but just at the side of the granary was a Roman mansion. The largest and more opulent ever seen to this date, the documentary claimed.
Anyway, the bodies were split in two groups in the cellar. One group was of wealthy people, since they found money and gold jewerly with them, and the other group were probably laborers and slaves since they had nothing.
But what I found astonishing was that they found the body of a 20 something woman with a purse that had 100,000 sestercii. The archeologist said that it represented 10 years pay for a legionaire. The best approximation to US dollars would be about 325,000 to 400,000 since most of the coins were solidus (gold coins). I wonder if these people found Pliny’s friend villa.
The wealth gap was astronomical. Sometimes so much that I have to reassure myself I’m correct if I use the numbers.
I’m curious about the forensics on the skeletal group who were servants, since slaves on villa farms were sometimes treated like barely above animals.
And yet, all 57 ended up with the same fate in the end.
Is it Pliny’s villa? Certainly, why not!
The surviving family did go back to it right after, in spite of continuing aftershocks, to wait for news about Pliny the Elder.
Here is the YouTube link: https://youtu.be/mnIY6AE4m6E
As for the villa. I think it could be Pliny’s friend villa.
I’m going to reward my hard day of work-work by watching some grisly documentaries!
Why do I get the suspicion that Felix is in another ship heading elsewhere?
Apparently, Pliny Jr. stayed home. No doubt his account of the disaster has substantially informed Klio’s rendering.
Equally doubtless, Felix will land elsewhere, so Klio can milk even more pathos out of an already horrifying story. She’s mean that way.
From what I have read, Pliny Jr went with his uncle in the rescue mission but he remained at their first unscheduled stop, a friend’s villa, when the ash and pumice fall made any kind of sea travel extremely dangerous. Pliny Sr decided to keep trying to reach his friend’s villa but died while traveling there. The rescuers aborted the mission and returned to where Pliny Jr. was.
Pliny the Younger decided to stay behind, basically to do his homework (he was still only a teenager), but then helped his household escape the dangers from tremors, through the heavy ash fall and complete darkness over Misenum and the environs.
The two Plinii get confusing, so when in doubt I double-check the original letters Jr wrote 🙂
Let’s say that the fish-pickle ship would have tried to go north toward Misenum while the going was good, and that the ship Felix and Damon ended up on was driven south, past Stabiae….
I’m not mean, I’m just forced by meteorological circumstances. That’s totally why.
Well, the eruption would undoubtedly produce some weird weather effects, with outflows, backdrafts and general volcanic flatulence. Those who left fairly early might get a fair land-breeze, wafting them away from the Nasty Mountain. Those who waited might find backdraft/onshore breezes prevented their getting far offshore without a great deal of rowing. And of course the water would get very rough… followed by poisonous clouds making it fairly far off shore… Altogether a worse boating experience than the recent Alabama Regatta!
Most if not all cargo ships of the time used sails. They could row but probably did not have more than 2 or 3 pairs of oars to do so. These weren’t galleys. Galleys were warships since they needed to maneuver independently of wind conditions.
Then there are the clouds of steam/ash and other unpleasant ness, not to mention watfing of vaporized citizens.
“Sometimes the end is not the end.” But all the times the end creates a lot of bureaucratic red tape.
Well, Pliny is Roman navy, so presumably he would have some oar-equipped military ships available, though generally the fast rowing ships were poor sea-boats. Certainly merchant ships would have some sweeps available for maneuvering in harbor, but indeed they would have no real power against headwinds or rough weather. I can imagine a panel showing mariners on a merchant ship heaving manfully on the maneuvering sweeps in a vain effort to get under weigh… then splat a big ole rock goes through the maindeck. Smaller boats in harbor might be able to row well enough to get away, but other weather effects might well doom them as well. It’s a pretty nasty situation, stuck on a lee shore with a vocano breathing down your neck.
I can imagine a panel showing mariners on a merchant ship heaving manfully on the maneuvering sweeps in a vain effort to get under weigh… then splat a big ole rock goes through the maindeck.
We’ll use that scene in the movie adaptation!
Which will somehow manage to star Tom Hiddleston and Tilda Swinton.
I was thinking about a Game Of Thronis mini series. Only problem is that you will have to sex it up. The volcano can provide the gore.
Only problem is that you will have to sex it up.
I have it on good authority that Felix would volunteer for that.
Pliny Sr. took the navy’s galleys and tried to reach wherever her friend’s villa was. Probably in Oplontis that was also buried in ash from the pyroclastic cloud. He could not reach the area due to strong HOT winds. Ash, pumice rock and heavy rocks falling like hail. He went to stabiae where they still suffered from the eruption but were safe from the pyroclastic cloud. There he died on the beach under a tent made with a ship’s sail. His nephew believed that he was killed by toxic gases that came from the volcano. Suetonius said that he ordered a slave to kill him so he wouldn’t die burned to death, But Pliny Jr. said that his body was unharmed. Current theories are either asthma attack caused by the ash (volcanic ash is really harmful to your lungs. Ash particles have razor like edges that will cut your pulmonary tissue to ribbons) or heart attack.
And don’t forget they tied pillows to their heads.
Suetonius always opted for the juiciest story. You have to love his sense of the dramatic.
Think Korbumite Maneuver.
Sorry, I was thinking of another episode, in which Kirk re-programs the simulation so he can win. In this case, I believe Klio will stand in for Kirk.
The Kobayashi Maru academy test. The only way to win is to cheat.
Or to have the artist stack the deck for you.
Kobayashi Maru! I knew you’d have the reference at your fingertips! As far as stacking the deck… given all the hard work you’ve done on this project, I figure you deserve a bit of slack now and again!
There is a real life Kobayashi Maru test for officers of the UK Royal Navy. They put you in a sub and then they send 4 ships to try to sink you by ramming. You have to escape.
at least some of them died in orderly rows.
Based on hard-won 19th century experience, the best way to avoid getting sunk by ramming, is to turn directly toward the attacker. You’re assured a hit, but a glancing one. Not sure how that would work out with 4 opponents… cumulative damage could be extensive after a few near ‘misses’
Unlike the fictional one, this is a test to see if the officer can work under pressure. The ships are on a ramming course but of course they are not going to ram you. At the same time, you have to evade and escape.
I wonder if Justa is thinking about the seer’s prophesy about following Felix.
It’s Friday already! We wants more Volcanic Disasters, my Precioussss!
Next one is going to be a little late–probably appearing in the wee hours. I’m doing my usual Friday drawing in the artist space at Carmine Street Comics, but have a wee bit of eyestrain to contend with 😛
Well okay, but if I have a conniption-fit, it’ll all be your fault… or Vulcan’s as the case may be.
Still…. Jonesing…. for…. More…. SPQR Blues. Please help if you can.
me too.
I’m at a con, drawing furiously. But also happily 🙂